Wardlaw's Dragoones Forum Index Wardlaw's Dragoones
Regimental forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Picture of soldiers in the 17th century
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wardlaw's Dragoones Forum Index -> Re-enacting Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gruff
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Picture of soldiers in the 17th century Reply with quote

Found this whilst I was trawling for pictures of hanging sleeves online. Apologies if you've seen it dozens of times already but I was bowled over by the detail:



Last edited by Gruff on Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Cheeky Monkey
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exellent.

Judging by the muskets hanging on the wall this must be the local garrison.

Is the dragoone (to the fore, on the left) wearing spatter-dashes? I wonder?
and the pikeman with his knitted stocking falling down. no hose under that.
Not to mention the wounded man's knitted stockings, and open styled shoes.
I read recently that latchet was a description for a shoe with a strap and buckle. I note these do not seem to have long tongues.
Not a lot of hose there, unless it's under the bucket-tops.

And yes!! on the floor between the officer, and the dragoone. next to the clay pipe. He's dropped his SK card!!!!
Back to top
bigmartin



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - I've not seen this one before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gruff
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called "Soldiers Arming Themselves" by a Dutch artist called Jacob Duck. He did a couple of other useful paintings called "Soldiers Playing cards" and "Guardroom with Soldiers Playing Cards" all from the mid-17th century. I read that the soldiers depicted are from the 30 years war.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Rob Jones



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a great picture isn't it? Typical Dutch mid-seventeenth century soldiers, and better as a source, I think, than the posed portraits of the Militia companies you gte from Rembrandt and the like. I'd agree with John that they are probably a garrison unit, and possibly based upon a local militia. As to his other comments may I respond -

"Is the dragoone (to the fore, on the left) wearing spatter-dashes? I wonder?"

He's an officer, not a dragoon - note the fine clothes, the lace collar the good sword and the gorget. He's not picking up a musket or wearing the corslet of a pikeman and there is an orange sash (rather short and narrow by comaprison with many we see in portraits) at his feet. I agree that he is wearing spatterdahses/cockers. Fairly thin and soft leather but tightly fitting.

"and the pikeman with his knitted stocking falling down. no hose under that."

No they all seem to be in single pairs of hose, rather than the double we are so used to seeing in the knot. Not sure that I could tell whether they were knitted or cut from cloth though. It's also interesting that he appears to be in just his shirt beneath his buff coat and corslet.

"Not to mention the wounded man's knitted stockings, and open styled shoes."

Actually I think he is just asleep - his 'friend' is going to tickle him under the nose with a piece of straw. Note just how long those hose are - they clearly go well over the knee.

"I read recently that latchet was a description for a shoe with a strap and buckle. I note these do not seem to have long tongues."

Not much if any evidence for buckles for shoes in our period. They seem to be a late seventtenth and eighteenth century development.

All in all, a good image of soldiery not in their finest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gruff
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the chap in the middle an NCO? He isn't dressed as finely as the officer on the left but he has buff-coat, bucket-tops and spurs and a rather nice rapier(?)

But then he's putting on a bandolier...

I suppose if this is a depiction of a local garrison he might be in his civvies and he's actually a mere musketeer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Rob Jones



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect they're militia, in which case he's wearing his own clothes and just happens to be better heeled than the chaps on the right.

Have been hunting out some more of Duck's stuff; there are some good piccies out there, including some interesting footwear. More when I've investiagted further.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Abs



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the chap on the right may have had one too many banjos!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cheeky Monkey
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Rob.
I did mean the gentleman front left to be the officer. the dragoone front right wouldn't have been the officer because he was busy putting his bandolier on. I did spot the sash on the floor, and assumed that it belonged to the other gentleman,

Interesting design of spatter-dashes, with tops that turn down, but then he is an officer.

Has anybody seen documented evidence of doubled hose, or socks over hose being worn, or is this an SK fallacy?
Back to top
Gruff
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wear double hose if it's cold but I wear both pairs over the knee as it looks daft otherwise - in my humble opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Rob Jones



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Gruff. Some of the SK reasoning was it helped hide the unauthentic footwear.

As to the cockers - fdor us these are a good example. Dragoons would want them to come over the knee to protect their legs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Abs



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, have you seen the officer's rosettes? Mmmmmmmm... lovely rosettes!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rob Jones



Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 327
Location: Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is it with you and rosettes?

Are they part of the bands holding up his hose, do you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cheeky Monkey
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gruff, regrettably the SK members only forum has been off-line for some time, but whilst it was working there were several pictures posted which illustrated attire during the thirty years war. This, I think was one of them. I think you may have rediscovered the source. They are of great interest. Would you like to post some more? Or the URL?

Re the officers rosettes. Would he have tied them himself? Or would they have been stitched on? Abs they would have been a decoration on his leg ties.
Back to top
Gruff
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Plymouth

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here's one by Michiel Sweerts:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wardlaw's Dragoones Forum Index -> Re-enacting Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group